Prawie dokładnie rok od dzisiaj zdecydowaliśmy się na poważną zmianę w naszej witrynie i uruchomiliśmy system komentarzy Livefyre, aby zastąpić domyślne komentarze WordPress. Był to produkt, w którym zakochaliśmy się od samego początku i nawiązaliśmy świetne relacje z ludźmi z firmy. Niestety, wraz z naszym ostatnim remontem, podjęliśmy decyzję o rozstaniu się z Livefyre. Wielu naszych użytkowników prosiło nas o szczegółowy artykuł na temat nowego wyglądu i zmian. Najczęstszym pytaniem, jakie otrzymywaliśmy, było dlaczego zrezygnowaliśmy z Livefyre. W tym artykule przedstawimy kilka spostrzeżeń na temat decyzji o odejściu od Livefyre i powrocie do domyślnych komentarzy WordPress.
Dlaczego początkowo zakochaliśmy się w Livefyre
Livefyre oferował komentarze w czasie rzeczywistym, „zredukował” spam dzięki wymogowi rejestracji, zintegrował się z mediami społecznościowymi i przywrócił konwersację na witrynę. Livefyre umożliwiał logowanie się za pomocą Facebooka, Twittera itp. Myśleliśmy również o zmniejszeniu obciążenia serwera. Wszystko to brzmi świetnie, ale wraz z rozwojem witryny napotkaliśmy kilka problemów.
Co się stało?
1. Komentarze w czasie rzeczywistym
Bardzo podobała nam się funkcja komentarzy w czasie rzeczywistym, ponieważ mogliśmy prowadzić w nich świetne rozmowy przypominające czat. Było to najlepsze doświadczenie zaangażowania, jakie kiedykolwiek widzieliśmy w komentarzach. Jednak moderacja komentarzy w czasie rzeczywistym stała się trudniejsza. Spamerzy zdali sobie sprawę, że tylko jedna rejestracja dzieli ich od zatwierdzenia wszystkich komentarzy na naszej witrynie.
Uwaga: Normalnie nigdy nie opublikowalibyśmy e-maili ani adresów IP użytkowników. To jest spamer i uważamy, że ujawnienie jego tożsamości jest sprawiedliwe.
Wracając do sedna. Okazało się więc, że regularnie czyściliśmy wiele z tych komentarzy. Niektóre nawet umykały naszym oczom i pozostawały tam miesiącami, dopóki jakiś użytkownik ich nie zobaczył i nie zgłosił jako SPAM. Jednym z powodów, dla których utrzymaliśmy tę funkcję podczas moderacji tych komentarzy, był fakt, że odnośnik użytkownika wskazywał na jego profil livefyre, a nie na jego rzeczywistą witrynę internetową. Nie umieszczaliśmy więc odnośników do witryn ze złej okolicy. Skończyło się to, gdy Livefyre zdecydowało się utworzyć nową funkcję, która umożliwiała użytkownikom dodawanie własnych odnośników do witryn internetowych, nie dając wydawcom witryn ŻADNEJ KONTROLI nad tą opcją. Zaczęliśmy obserwować wzrost liczby komentarzy SPAM, więc szybko wyłączyliśmy funkcję czasu rzeczywistego (która była główną rzeczą, która przyciągnęła nas do Livefyre w pierwszej kolejności).
2. Jak SPAM
Jedną z rzeczy, które przekonały nas do tego pomysłu było to, że wymaganie rejestracji zmniejszy ilość spamu. Cóż, to było całkowicie BŁĘDNE. Livefyre ma funkcję o nazwie Like. Została ona oczywiście stworzona w dobrych intencjach. Jednak system ten jest mocno nadużywany. Wyjaśnijmy ten proces. Każdy zarejestrowany użytkownik livefyre może polubić komentarz, jeśli zgadza się z jego treścią. Gdy użytkownik polubi komentarz, jego awatar pojawi się obok komentarza z bezpośrednim linkiem zwrotnym do witryny użytkownika. Nie wspominając o tym, że jest to link zwrotny DO-FOLLOW. Poniżej znajduje się zrzut ekranu z samego bloga Livefyre, na którym widać, jak działa Like SPAM.
W powyższym przykładzie spamer nie jest zbyt inteligentny. Używa domyślnego awatara tajemniczego mężczyzny. Spamerzy na naszej witrynie byli sprytniejsi. Mieli swoje logo jako awatar. Tak więc można było zobaczyć kolorową grupę mini-ikonek, które były odnośnikami do spamerskich witryn SEO, witryn z ofertami kart kredytowych itp. Niektórzy mogą nie wierzyć, że to prawda, ale tak się dzieje. Poniżej znajduje się profil jednego z użytkowników, który zgłosiliśmy Livefyre prawie miesiąc temu.
Do tej pory nie podjęto żadnych działań. Profil spamera jest nadal włączany lub przynajmniej wydaje się aktywny (ponieważ jest widoczny). Teraz albo ten facet naprawdę kocha każdy komentarz, który czyta, albo jest spamerem. My wolimy wierzyć w to drugie. Nie wierz nam, sprawdź odnośnik do witryny wymienionej w jego profilu, jest to witryna farmy adsense.
Teraz myślisz, że to, co opisaliśmy powyżej, jest złe. Najgorsze jest to, że nie ma powiadomienia o tym, kto co polubił na twojej witrynie internetowej. Nie ma sposobu, aby dowiedzieć się, kto SPAMUJE twoją witrynę. Jedynym sposobem, aby się tego dowiedzieć, jest zgłoszenie tego przez użytkownika lub przypadkowe powiadomienie o jednym z twoich starszych wpisów.
Kiedy dowiedzieliśmy się, że padliśmy ofiarą Like SPAM w wielu artykułach na witrynie (i prawdopodobnie w większej liczbie, o której nie wiedzieliśmy), wiedzieliśmy, że musimy natychmiast zmienić. Czuliśmy się bezradni i pozbawieni kontroli. To jeden z minusów tego, że nie jesteś właścicielem swojej treści.
3. Konwersacja społecznościowa
Konwersacje społecznościowe to bardzo fajna opcja, którą zapewnia Livefyre. Możesz przenieść swoje rozmowy z Twittera i Facebooka z powrotem do artykułu. Teoretycznie brzmi to świetnie, jednak nie zostało to jeszcze dopracowane. Widzieliśmy wiele nieistotnych komentarzy pochodzących z Twittera. To dobry pomysł, ale wymaga dopracowania i lepszego filtra. Wypróbowaliśmy tę funkcję na naszej witrynie i nie działała ona tak dobrze, jak powinna.
4. Moderacja
Decydując się na korzystanie z Livefyre, mieliśmy wrażenie, że istnieje dwukierunkowa komunikacja między Livefyre a twoją bazą danych WordPress. Oznaczałoby to, że można używać moderacji WordPressa do zatwierdzania, usunięcia lub odpowiadania na komentarze. Cóż, to nie była PRAWDA. Na początku wydawało się, że to działa, ale ostatnio przyniosło odwrotny skutek. Zaktualizowaliśmy wtyczkę Livefyre i nagle mieliśmy setki komentarzy oczekujących na moderację. Okazało się, że wszystkie komentarze, które już moderowaliśmy, wróciły (i zostały oznaczone jako oczekujące). Nie jesteśmy pewni, co się stało. Skontaktowaliśmy się z pomocą techniczną Livefyre i otrzymaliśmy odpowiedź:
Wygląda na to, że próbujesz moderować komentarze z poziomu pulpitu WordPress, czego obecnie nie pomagamy technicznie, tj. zmiany w twoim kokpicie nie zostaną zsynchronizowane z Livefyre.
Jesteśmy pewni, że działało to w przeszłości. Nie pamiętam, która to była aktualizacja wersji, ale wydawało się, że wszystko się popsuło. Rozmawiałem z dobrym przyjacielem Mitchem Canterem (@studionashvegas), który powiedział, że działało to również na jego witrynie. Powiedział, że nadal działa. Nie jesteśmy więc do końca pewni, co poszło nie tak, ale mimo to zostaliśmy z setkami komentarzy do przejrzenia i ponownej moderacji.
Powiedziano nam, że aby to zadziałało, musimy moderować komentarze za pomocą panelu moderacji Livefyre. Było kilka powodów, dla których od samego początku nie lubiliśmy panelu administracyjnego Livefyre.
- Brak moderacji zbiorczej – jeśli chcesz usunąć wiele komentarzy lub oznaczyć je jako spam, nie ma sposobu, aby to łatwo zrobić. Trzeba to robić pojedynczo. Pozostaje to problemem nawet w ich NOWYM interfejsie.
- Słaba indywidualna moderacja – Usunięcie komentarza wymaga dwóch kliknięć. Jednym z nich jest decyzja o usunięciu, a następnie podanie powodu usunięcia. Może to być uciążliwe. Pozostaje to problemem w ich NOWYM interfejsie.
- Brak kontroli nad komentarzami – Kiedy podjęliśmy decyzję o zmianie, nie było opcji edycji komentarza użytkownika. Utrudniało to egzekwowanie wytycznych dotyczących komentarzy. Na przykład ktoś zostawia świetny komentarz, ale kończy go odnośnikiem do podpisu (na co nie zezwalamy). Musimy albo zaakceptować komentarz bez zmian, albo go usunąć. Poprawka została naprawiona w nowym interfejsie. Można teraz edytować komentarze.
- Odpowiadanie jest uciążliwe – w przypadku witryny takiej jak nasza często musimy odpowiadać na komentarze. Nie ma na to prostego sposobu. Zobaczysz komentarz w panelu moderacji livefyre. Musisz otworzyć artykuł, w którym zobaczysz komentarz jako oczekujący. Zatwierdź go, a następnie odpowiedz z tego miejsca. To sprawia, że panel moderacji Livefyre jest praktycznie bezużyteczny. W zapleczu moderacji WordPressa dostępna jest naprawdę fajna funkcja o nazwie Odpowiedz i zatwierdź. Dzięki niej można odpowiedzieć na komentarz bez otwierania nowej karty/okna wpisu.
5. Problemy z formatowaniem
Zauważyliśmy, że Livefyre dodawało dodatkowy CSS jako tekst komentarza dla niektórych użytkowników. Musiał to być jakiś problem po stronie użytkownika, ponieważ zdarzało się to tylko nielicznym, ale cenimy wszystkich naszych użytkowników. Nie wiemy, czy poprawka została już naprawiona.
Inną rzeczą, którą zauważyliśmy, było to, że dodawanie podziałów wierszy w twoim komentarzu było uciążliwe. Próbowaliśmy więc odpowiedzieć komuś i wkleić odnośnik. Jednak automatyczne formatowanie Livefyre pozbywało się ich. Czasami nawet powodowało to uszkodzenie odnośników, więc musieliśmy dodawać dodatkowe spacje między odnośnikiem a tekstem po nim. Największym problemem było to, że podczas wpisywania rodzaju tekstu można użyć kombinacji klawiszy Shift + Wpisz, a program pokaże, że nastąpiło przerwanie linii. Patrz obrazek poniżej:
6. Nieuczciwy kompromis
Decydując się na korzystanie z Livefyre, poszliśmy na pewne kompromisy. Zrezygnowaliśmy z niektórych możliwości, aby uzyskać inne fajne funkcje oferowane przez Livefyre. Jednak po dłuższym okresie korzystania z Livefyre i dostrzeżeniu jego wad, uznaliśmy, że nie był to uczciwy kompromis. Pozwól nam to trochę rozwinąć.
Brak własnego konfiguratora stylów
Zdawaliśmy sobie z tego sprawę, gdy przechodziliśmy na Livefyre. Za każdym razem, gdy używasz skryptu innej firmy, tracisz kontrolę nad niektórymi stylami. Obecny, aktualny wygląd komentarzy pasuje do motywu i wygląda 111111 pięknie. W przypadku Livefyre nie mieliśmy tak dużej kontroli nad wyglądem. Nie mają opcji białej etykiety dostępnej dla ogółu społeczeństwa. Wierzymy jednak, że ta usługa jest świadczona dla klientów na poziomie korporacyjnym.
Brak generowania leadów z komentarzy
Wiedzieliśmy, że po przejściu na Livefyre stracimy możliwość generowania leadów z formularza komentarzy. Wykonywaliśmy przekierowania komentarzy dla nowych użytkowników, a także dawaliśmy im możliwość subskrypcji newslettera z poziomu komentarzy. Rozmawialiśmy z zespołem Livefyre o dodaniu takiej możliwości. Najważniejsze było to, że nie ma prostego rozwiązania. Zaproponowane przez nich rozwiązanie polegało na tym, że dostępne jest API, którego możemy użyć do podłączenia się do ich systemu i zbierania e-maili, jeśli użytkownik zaznaczył pole wyboru. Nie było możliwości przekierowania komentarzy.
Proces myślowy naszego zespołu wyglądał trochę tak:
Abyśmy mogli korzystać z tej platformy i uzyskać funkcje, których chcemy, musimy zbudować ją sami. Podczas gdy istnieje doskonale działający system komentowania, z którym znacznie łatwiej jest pracować. Dostępnych jest już wiele wtyczek. Cóż, decyzja była jednogłośna.
Rejestracja przez stronę trzecią
Ponownie, byliśmy tego świadomi, kiedy rejestrowaliśmy się do korzystania z Livefyre. Wiedzieliśmy, że będziemy musieli wymagać od naszych użytkowników rejestracji w zewnętrznej usłudze „Livefyre”, aby móc komentować na naszej witrynie. Wierzyliśmy, że jest to dla większego dobra, ponieważ będziemy mieli sensowną konwersację i inne dodatkowe funkcje. Na wszystkich WordCampach, w których uczestniczyliśmy, zawsze pojawiało się kilku użytkowników, którzy narzekali na system komentowania. Otrzymywaliśmy również liczne e-maile od użytkowników na ten temat. Ludzie mieli problemy z komentowaniem za zaporą, niektórzy po prostu czuli, że ich wolność komentowania na WPBeginner została utracona. Tak, kilka miesięcy temu Livefyre dodało funkcję komentowania gościnnego. Ale nadal zachęca użytkowników do rejestracji w Livefyre. To znowu nie był uczciwy kompromis. Zawiedliśmy naszych użytkowników. Wielu z nich przestało komentować. Niewielu komentowało przez e-mail, aby dać nam znać, jeśli popełniliśmy błąd itp. To było dla nas naprawdę rozczarowujące. Niektórzy z tych użytkowników powiedzieli, że chętnie zarejestrowaliby się, aby komentować, gdyby zarejestrowali się w WPBeginner. My jednak wymagaliśmy od nich rejestracji u strony trzeciej. Rozmawialiśmy o tym z Livefyre. Mają API dla przedsiębiorstw, które pozwoli Ci zachować Twoją własną bazę użytkowników. Wszystkie dane użytkowników będą twoje. Jednak proces integracji nie wydawał się tak prosty. Nie pamiętam całej sprawy, ale w zasadzie musielibyśmy stworzyć oddzielną bazę danych bbPress lub BuddyPress, aby pomieścić wszystkich użytkowników. Brzmiało to zbyt zagmatwanie. Nie zdecydowaliśmy się na to.
W tamtym czasie te kompromisy nie brzmiały jak wielka sprawa w porównaniu do wszystkich fajnych funkcji, które otrzymywaliśmy dzięki Livefyre. Jednak z biegiem czasu byliśmy w stanie zobaczyć jaśniejszy obraz z naszego doświadczenia.
Co teraz?
Cóż, wróciliśmy do wbudowanego systemu komentowania WordPress. Kilku użytkowników wysłało do nas e-mail z pytaniem, czego używamy, aby dodać opcję logowania za pomocą Twittera / Facebooka, którą widzisz poniżej. Używamy kombinacji dwóch wtyczek (tego samego autora @otto42) o nazwie Simple Twitter Connect i Simple Facebook Connect.
Aktualizacja 12 października 2012: Pozbyliśmy się zarówno opcji logowania do Twittera, jak i logowania do FB, głównie dlatego, że zauważyliśmy, że ludzie nie używają ich tak często. Pozbycie się ich ma znaczący wpływ na czasy wczytywania. Wolelibyśmy, aby witryna była szybsza dla większości 
Spotkaliśmy się i rozmawialiśmy z wieloma użytkownikami, którzy uwielbiają korzystać z Livefyre. Chociaż nie było to odpowiednie rozwiązanie dla naszej witryny, zapraszamy do wypróbowania go na własnej skórze. Chcielibyśmy poznać twoje zdanie na temat Livefyre. Jeśli masz swoje zdanie, nie krępuj się komentować poniżej.
Syed Balkhi
Hey WPBeginner readers,
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Every month, our top blog commenters will win HUGE rewards, including premium WordPress plugin licenses and cash prizes.
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Dirk
I like how your comments are styled, nice work!
Chetan Bhasin
Do they not have a spam policy on Livefyre, or is Akisment not working with Livefyre?
Well! I was testing Livefyre for a blog but then read this.
While I really like the social login and tagging feature on Livefyre, I can not risk my website to spam comments.
Dennis Marshall
I just decided to use LifeFyre. I have it on another blog and it seems to be pretty stable. I’ll give it 90 days.. Great Post though.. I’ll be sure to link to you guys..
Steve Wilson
I was gonna try Livefyre but then i read your post and ah… thanks buddy. I may have to stick with Disqus anyway. Oh what can you say about Disqus then?
Kathy Korman Frey
I basically did this as well. Felt sort of „doe in headlights” after this post.
Scott
What do you use for comment spam? akisment or what? thanks in advance…
Editorial Staff
We use Akismet. But we also have Sucuri which takes care of a lot of spam and malicious requests.
Administrator
Danny Cruz
I have a question. I’ve had Livefyre on my guitar site for a few years now, but I was recently considering getting rid of it. In doing the research to decide whether to remove it or not, a search led me here. Great piece by the way.
My question is… When you delete Livefyre, do you lose all the comments made through the system? Or do they somehow go into your WP comment interface?
Editorial Staff
Livefyre comments are stored in your WordPress database, so they will still be there even when you disable Livefyre. The only thing that gets messed up is the conversation threading.
Administrator
Linda S
Ah. now I see this. Thank you. I’ve made a long comment elsewhere that all free Livefyre „community comments” users will need to get off of this plugin now thanks to Adobe’s purchase.
Spencer Edgington
I like Disqus better …
Steve Wilson
Me too, i used for all my commenting because its pleasant to the eye and its very easy to track my comments with.
Jalil Asaria
You might want to have a look at Viafoura.
Full disclosure I work for them. But we actually displace livefyre for the ver reasons you pointed out.
PolarStar
Hi, Which plugins are you using to personalize the default comment section you have now? I mean the notify me of followup and subscribe to WPBeginner below? Also I like that people on this web use their photos. Is it only because they have Gravatar accounts?
Thanks, Polar
Editorial Staff
You can see how our comment system works here: https://www.wpbeginner.com/blueprint/comments/
As for photos, yes it is through gravatar.
Administrator
PolarStar
Thank your fore the reply!
himagain
Hi there!
Actually, I’ve left a couple of replies above.
But aside from getting confirmation here about dumping livefye, it helps to know that I was not alone.
BUT – it still for an unknown reason means I cannot comment on Sites running Livefyre – despite the fact that I am a member!
AND am going to look into knocking off this Theme, later!
Cheers!
Shashi
Good information about the advantages and disadvantages of Livefyre. Thanks for your time to mention all of them.
Chris
I didn’t like it either, the new Disqus is much better for that matter. And hey can you share how to make the social media share icons scroll down along with the post? Like you have it here?
Paul Shapiro
I got freaked out on my blog when I saw spammers liking comments on my posts, but I checked and the links are now „nofollow”. FYI.
Editorial Staff
Must have been a recent change that they made. However even with a nofollow link, sending traffic to spammers is not ideal. Your competitor can easily click like on all comments on your post, and they will get clicks. Would you like to send traffic to your competitors?
Administrator
mre
Anyone know of an OPEN SOURCE commenting system?
Editorial Staff
Yup, the built-in commenting system.
Administrator
MRE
My bad, I was commenting from my phone, not realizing this was a WordPress blog about WordPress. I meant a 3rd party, open-source code API comment system – like what Chromium is to Chrome or Linux is to Mac.
I want to use on a Scriptogram blog.
Mrinal
Just saved me. I was going to install it. Thank you.
MichaelADeBose
Great post. I’ll be putting up a blog soon and your post gave me some things to consider. It’s funny because I am experiencing an issue with Disqus where regardless of using Twitter sign-in or their interface and clicking that my comments on whichever site be sent to my Twitter feed, it has not been happening. For me that is important, first and foremost because it is a feature that is provided and so you would expect it to work. It’s not worked in over a week and despite interacting with some of Disqus staff, its still not working.
Getting ready to put up my own blog, between your post and my own experience, its clear that people are quite enthusiastic about comments and apparently for quite a few different reasons. It’s clear to me that I really need to weigh the options. From my sad Disqus experience, I am imminently aware that my commenter’s comments after they leave my site are as important to me as when they are on my site and I need a commenting system that both myself and my commenters can trust to do what its supposed to as its advertised. Then to your point I also need something that functions with the level of control I want, within a reasonable envelope of effort. I’m still looking for the answer, but you’ve helped me articulate for myself much more focused questions. Thanks.
Brendan
Just curious what your thoughts were on Livefyre’s StreamHub… it’s an enterprise system they offer. I’m concerned about the Do Follow on the likes you had mentioned along. However, I am able to modify comments from people who leave links in their comment. I will stick with Livefyre for at least a few months as our comments have increased 400%! Cheers.
Editorial Staff
StreamHub is a new technology they added after we switched away. So we cannot comment on those features.
Administrator
Robert le Grange
I like this topic a lot, every time I catch a good read (this is one of best) I get sucked into the hunt for the perfect solution. It appears this one is solid.
One thing I would like to see happen is when a sign-in via twitter is completed that the page is jumped to the input box, otherwise lots of scrolling especially on this popular post.
What about Google sign-in integration?
Editorial Staff
We haven’t integrated Google, but we might consider in the future.
Administrator
Elijah
Now you’ve just talked me out of installing Livefyre. Good read.
Arul
I was thinking about going with livefyre for the exact reasons.I simply love real time comments. Not creates a flaming argument like those and to me I thought the drawbacks are very little until I read this and now I using your own comments blueprint :). Slightly shameful in copying your entire commenting layout.
Tony Greene
Valid points for your dismissal of the awesomeness that is Livefyre. It’s not for everyone as you point out.
By the way, it looks like your twitter token is failing and the facebook button has failed to load properly.
Not a good look if you’re trying to keep the conversation going…
Editorial Staff
Yup, its a great product just not for everyone. It was in the list of to-do to get rid of both FB and Twitter connect options. Finally got rid of them.
Administrator
Amber Hewitt
May I ask why you got rid of the social network sign-ins? I was thinking of adding them to my site.
Editorial Staff
Mainly because people weren’t using it as much. Almost everyone was using the name/email method. Very few were using social connect. Keeping social connect buttons on the page meant numerous additional HTTP requests and slower page load time. We decided to improve our page load time by a few seconds by getting rid of those options that people weren’t really using.
Carlos Mendoza
What is the system of comments that you are using right now!
Editorial Staff
It is default WordPress comments. You can see our blueprint link in the sidebar that will show you how we created our comments.
Administrator
Carla
I am looking for a setup where discussions can happen in real time. I like Go To Meeting but I want it to be more of a commenting platform vs. a chat room platform. This is also going to be behind a membership setup and later transcripts will be added for others to read.
Does anyone have any ideas on this type of setup within WordPress?
Editorial Staff
Behind a membership site, I think that Livefyre may be worth a try (specially if it is paid membership) because then you will weed out a lot of SPAM. Also consider looking at the P2 theme.
Administrator
Reasonably Good
Hi, we’re having similar debates over commenting systems & have discounted using Disqus & livefyre due to lack of control/ownership of discussions.
Can i ask if you’ve looked at IntenseDebate? It’s main attraction to us is that comments are hosted on your own DB and seem to work in tandem with WP’s own comment system. In fact, according to Mashable, Automatic (WP’s owners) have bought IntenseDebate so it should sync in really well.
It appears to offer the FB & Twitter integration most people want and offers a growing list of 3rd party add ons too.
Would like to hear your take on it if you’ve given it the once over.
Editorial Staff
We used intense debate briefly on a client’s site. Even livefyre and Disqus hosts keeps a backup of your comments in your database (which makes it easy to switch back). Yes its true that Automattic bought Intense Debate. It seems though that they are more focused on JetPack comments now. We probably would not use another third party commenting system anytime soon.
Administrator
Oliver Nielsen
I recently killed Jetpack on my site, as I hate the default on-status of the modules. No control with what’s activated and what isn’t, after updating Jetpack.
So I came here to read peoples experiences with Livefyre and Disqus. I’ve had terrible experiences with IntenseDebate a few years ago, so I’m very wary about trying those two alternatives.
Daniel Green
I’d been using Livefyre for a while now, but in the past week my spam comments sky rocketed to 70 odd in the space of a couple of days.. and not just a sentence or two but huge paragraphs of nonsense. Then I found out that for some reason the plugin had just stopped working all together. (I couldnt login OR post as guest). The fact is though, ever since using LF the only comments I ever received were Spam.
Previous to this I tried Comment_Luv, but this just turned out to be a blogging Circle-Jerk. People would only comment on other Com Luv enabled sites, just to get those special backlinks. This also rendered commenting on blogs without the plugin useless, or at least far less appealing.
So now I’m trying Disqus. For one thing, you get access to moderation through the WP-admin panel (via a secondary login), so you dont have to leave WP. The 2012 update also seems quite appealing. You have the option to sign in via the usual twitter, facebook and google, but you can also just leave your name email and website, similar to standard WP comments.
Editorial Staff
Yeah one of the reasons why we disable links on our site is because we don’t want users to comment on the site just for the sake of backlinks. If you want to say something and add value to the content, you will do so regardless of the link or not. In the future, we may work out some sort of loyalty based program, but that is not the priority at the moment.
Administrator
Meghan Krane
I’m Meghan with Livefyre. Did you ever contact our customer support regarding your spam issues? Had you contacted us we would have looked into this immediately and worked to resolve the situation. We haven’t received any customer complaints from anyone in our network about paragraphs of spam in Livefyre comments, and we definitely want to investigate this matter further. We weren’t able to locate you anywhere in our database, would you mind sharing the URL of your site with us?
himagain
@meghan HAHAHA! You couldn’t find anyone here??
I’ve been going nutz trying to get ANYTHING to work on YOUR Site.
On several of my key contact Sites I can no longer post messages.
It has taken quite a lot of frustrated detective work to realise it is YOUR system causing my problems.
A really dumb message comes up as I try to post and it doesn’t matter whether I try to bypass Livefyre or not I get:
„It seems you’re attempting to post malformed content.”
I AM registered in your operation.
I cannot get ANY response from your Website Support at all.
Try to place a support message and it will bomb you out with a script error of its own:
„You haven’t selected a topic” – Ihad – twice!
Typed in a long supprt report and to add insult to injury -the above error simply alsowipes your message!
Email didn’t work either.
SO there is a good reason that you aren’t getting complaints – we can’t post them!
Amber Hewitt
I found this article while researching WordPress commenting systems. I was going to pick Disqus or Livefyre, but after reading your article, I’ll try the built-in WordPress commenting system with a few plugins. I looked up Otto42’s plugins to download and found one by Otto42 that solves a different problem I have!
Thank you!
Rourke Decker
Just a little tip: The verbiage under Add a Comment should read, „We’re glad you have chosen to leave a comment.”
I am giving serious thought to removing Livefyre from my own site (the main reason why I found your article). The problem is I would probably also lose the majority of my readership. They come to my site for the real-time interaction that Livefyre offers, which is lacking in the default WordPress commenting system.
A wonderful compromise would be for the Livefyre plugin not to entirely hijack the commenting system, allowing people who don’t want to sign up for Livefyre (or who are behind corporate firewalls, which has been a big problem for my readers) to leave comments through the default interface. That would be the best of both worlds.
Editorial Staff
Fixed the verbiage.
As for real-time comments, you can see how P2 theme allows for real-time comment notifications. Require user to register on your own site, and go that route.
Administrator
Rourke Decker
But it still requires refreshing the page to see the new comments, right? That’s why we went to Livefyre in the first place — to obviate the need for refreshing constantly.
Editorial Staff
Well, unfortunately no one has gone ahead to turn this technique into a plugin yet:
http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2012/05/09/building-real-time-commenting-system/
Joey
This works very well: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-ajaxify-comments/
Andy Bailey
Excellent article, I really enjoyed reading this and the points you made about no custom styling and the disadvantages of 3rd party registration issues were interesting.
And its an interesting thing to remove the URL field to combat spam, do you find that your legitimate comments have decreased because of this?
I made the commentluv plugin and I think I can integrate a sort of halfway measure in to the premium version if removing the URL field is working for you… How about only enabling it if a user has made a certain amount of approved comments?
I could set the plugin to recognise the email address and if it was a user who had left the right amount of comments, it could reveal the URL field.
What do you think? I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts…
Editorial Staff
Andy, I don’t think legitimate comments went down because of no URL field. We have seen an increase in comments since taking out Livefyre. A lot of the users who stopped commenting (because of registration) are now back. We did see a SIGNIFICANT increase in SPAM comments, but Akismet is doing a really good job at filtering those.
I’m looking at it from this perspective. If you were going to comment to add value, you will comment regardless of the link. Worried about identity? Your gravatar is there, people can still identify you. We don’t want comments like „Great article”. Often folks leave those type of comments because they are commenting for incentive (backlink).
Your suggestion of the loyalty reward is a good idea. I’ve been thinking of ways to add some sort of reward system in WPBeginner (still in early thought phase). Still not sure how I want us to approach that. I think your idea is very solid, and a lot of folks can benefit from it.
One thing I want to do though is NOT add a link input field for everyone. It should only appear to those with the right email. For example, once a user hits an XXX amount of comments, an automated email gets sent out. The user can choose to display their Twitter. After they hit XXX, then we let them have their website URL. I hope I’m making sense. Also it would be cool to detect user’s email and show up badges next to their name.
Administrator
himagain
Just butting in here: ME TOO!
I’d be interested in your proposal there -and I don’t even know the commentluv package… yet.
Paul
This is very interesting, I currently use Disqus on my site and since their recent upgrade, which I believe has added a lot of features which livefyre has. Since the upgrade I’ve not really like the experience you get with it and thinking of moving back to the WordPress comments.
Since reading this article it has made up my mind to remove Disqus and go back to using the WordPress comment system and get control back.
Joey
Interesting. Let’s see how and when Livefyre handles these issues.
I’m unable to integrate FB and twitter connect the exact same way you guys have. Can you explain how that was done?
Also, any chance of an advanced article on making themes with genesis?
Editorial Staff
Not sure what you mean by not able to integrate it like how we have. Are you talking about styling? If so, then we simply styled the div those two buttons are wrapped. That is just CSS. To add that separator, you may have to edit your comment form. Our theme is a custom Genesis Child theme and we had to do that. There are no immediate plans of showing „how-to” build a theme. Because there are so many levels of users. Not sure at what point we start teaching WordPress theme development vs. HTML / CSS.
Administrator
Emily
That sounds like a pain. I wasn’t around during the Livefyre comments but compared to the screenshots, the new comments also fit the site a lot better. I almost went for them just for the connect with Twitter and Facebook features, but because you posted links to completely separate plugins for that, I’m not even going to try Livefyre and instead go straight for the two other plugins, which look great.
Andreas
Do you know the „Social” plugin by Mailchimp? I think it improves the commenting system a lot and keeps all the comments „inhouse”.
Editorial Staff
Yes we are aware of that. Just didn’t like the UI.
Administrator
Faris
Why don’t you guys use the Official Facebook for WordPress plugin
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/facebook/
Editorial Staff
First because it JUST came out. Second, because it doesn’t have the Facebook Connect for default comments. It has Facebook Comments which is what we don’t want.
Administrator
Gautam Doddamani
and thirdly it creates a conflict with the fb open graph meta tags…wpbeginner is already using it in his header files…if we activate that plugin graph protocols may become broken
Albert Albs
Thanks for the update. Yes seen some spamming over the comment author profiles with LiveFyre system. Your decision is correct. I would suggest adding Comment Author URL form with No-Follow attribute to encourage decent commentators. And use Akismat spam plugin. That is it. 80% Problem solved.
Also as I said earlier, I’m not getting any comment notification, even after selecting the “Notify me of followup comments via e-mail” option.
Also check out: Today Jetpack shipped Comment system for self-hosted WordPress blogs. I will mention you in the Google+ Post.
Gautam Doddamani
albert, website field is already external nofollow by default in wordpress…as wpbeginner stated in one of the comments..dey r using it to further help reduce spammers.
and about the notification problem have you ticked the box and then added your comment? if so u should be getting notificiations!!
i dont use jetpack..but wil try it today..thanx for the update..jetpack is growing a lot these days..apart from ATD and sharedaddy implementation i believe all other plugins are not so useful in it.
Albert Albs
Hi Gautam, Thanks for the inputs regarding Comment Author URL field.
About Notification problem: Yes. I clicked that check box (“Notify me of followup comments via email”). And your reply to my comment also did not come as a notification.
I manually checked this post for any reply and commenting now.
B/w All the time I logined using my Twitter account.
Keith Davis
Sorry for second comment guys – only just noticed that you are running on Genesis.
Nice one boys.
What about a post on why you went over to Genesis… or did I miss that one?
Editorial Staff
That will be coming soon
Administrator
Gautam Doddamani
yes syed i have a lot of confusion about geneis and thesis…dont know which framework is the best…and the pros and cons of each one of em. really want your opinion on these guys..wil be waiting for ur post
Jenna Langer
Hey there, Jenna from Livefyre here. Syed, we’ve spoken about this in person, and on the phone, and of course we’re sad to see you go. A lot of the issues you were having are covered in our new Admin Dashboard (i.e. bulk actions, edit comments) and others will be fixed in the new Livefyre Comments 3 (i.e. formatting of comments, like spam, easier custom styling which is currently supported via CSS).
We’re taking all your feedback to continue to add more features to our platform, and thanks for taking the time to share it with us.
Editorial Staff
Hey Jenna, I was sad to switch away as well. I had a great time hanging out with the Livefyre crew in person. Had a pleasure working with you guys on your blog redesign. Nothing about this decision was personal. David, Amanda, Muhammad, and I discussed this thoroughly. I know that Livefyre is still a very young platform. I know you guys are working hard every day into improving the platform and making users happy. I probably would have never authorized this write up if the users didn’t ask for it. Because I had already talked to you about this via email, over the phone, and in person at BWENY. Upon the redesign, we got a lot of emails, FB messages, twitter DMs regarding the new features we added. Some users wanted to know why we switched away from Livefyre. We decided to do the article once we saw a comment on our original Livefyre article (where the user asked, why are you not using it anymore). I felt that we cannot ignore that comment. It was almost impossible to explain everything to detail in one comment. This was the reason why we did this post.
Like I said over our phone call and our in-person meeting, I am always happy to review and give feedback to improve a product (specially for friends).
Administrator
Brad Dalton
I installed the Livefyre plugin and it duplicated over 1000 spam comments into approved spam comments that took me days to remove without removing the entire comments from my site.
I eventually worked out a way to remove them using a database request but it was a giant mess.
That was 6 months ago and they still haven’t come up with a fix.
Keith Davis
Hi Guys
I’ve been wondering about using Livefyre so this post has come just right for me.
Appreciate you taking the time to put the various points together and a great case you’ve made for not using LF.
Might try the facebook and twitter connect plugins – nice to integrate the social media side in to the comments.
John Bolyard
I tried LIvefyre on a few clients websites but we got a lot of feedback about the third party registration.
Good article – I was considering trying Livefyre again but I don’t think it would be worth it.
Chris Rouse
First time commenting here, but I’ve been reading for a few months. All I can say is „Thank you for abandoning Livefyre.” Another blog I read recently switched from Disqus and I haven’t been able to comment since then. This post is literally the first time I knew that I had to make a Livefyre account to leave a comment on that blog. I don’t see the point of creating another account to leave an occasional comment when Disqus and WordPress both allow logging in with my Twitter account.
Bob R
Can I ask you a question? Why did you strip off the website field in the commenting form? Just noticed I cannot click on any of your reader’s name to see what they were up to…
Editorial Staff
As for removing the website field, the main reason is SPAM. All comment links are external nofollow. However, this doesn’t really prevent SPAM. By getting rid of the website field altogether, it gives spammers no reason to comment on our site. They can still put links in the content of their comment, but Akismet is pretty good at detecting that.
Now users should comment only if they wish to add value to the article. We do understand that this sort of takes away from user’s web identity. We are still trying to figure out how to rectify that situation. Some suggestions are adding a twitter field, so usernames link to the twitter profile. But no decision has been made yet.
Administrator
Gautam Doddamani
personally i think livefyre is really not even worth to try..hehe you should definitely suggest this article to the guys at the THENEXTWEB…dey r using d same commenting platform.
one more question i wanted to ask you guys was..why did u remove the Website field in the comment section?? is it because when someone specifies his/her own site we are passing a dofollow link?
and another thing is i believe otto’s facebook and twitter connect adds a lot of plugin files slowing down the blog load time…is it still worth it?
also do you think DISQUS is a good commenting platform? they have recently released the DISQUS 2012 version and i am currently using it…and it reduces a lot of plugins. i really want your opinions on this!
Thanks in advance
Editorial Staff
Gautam, from what I have heard TNW has their own user database. So when you register there, it is different from your Livefyre account. They have also integrated Livefyre with reward based system.
As for removing the website field, the main reason is SPAM. All comment links are external nofollow. However, this doesn’t really prevent SPAM. By getting rid of the website field altogether, it gives spammers no reason to comment on our site. They can still put links in the content of their comment, but Akismet is pretty good at detecting that.
I don’t think Otto would add anything that is not necessary into the plugin. SFC and STC does have a lot of options. But he only loads those if you activate all. For us, we are only using like one feature from each of his plugins. The load time slowdown is mostly because it reaches out to the FB and Twitter API. If you have stats to prove otherwise, we would be happy to look at those.
Never tried Disqus. One lesson we learned with this was to keep our comments in-house if we want full control.
Administrator
Gautam Doddamani
wao…seriously dats a very gud logic…spammers are always looking for a way to give exposure to their sites through any and all means, and now as there is no website field, only genuine commenters will spend their time commenting!
yes as for otto’s plugin..i have personally used it! yea i know, only if we activate a specific module, those particular files will be loaded..but don’t you think signing in to facebook is rather time consuming? and not to mention users already have to bypass a third party app (not yours) to actually start commenting.
i personally prefer the seo facebook comment plugin…fb users can directly comment if they are already signed into their facebook account or are visiting your post from a facebook url …they have no need to sign in…also this system is being used by techcrunch.
disqus is really worth it…i am speaking this from experience…my spam has reduced a lot and i am honestly using only one single plugin for comments. no need for akismet (in-built spam system), no need for subscribe to comments plugin or mailchimp (in-built subscribe via email/rss system), social sharing is fully supported, seo is completely organic, if there are links present in the comment dey directly goto pending or spam folder, commenters r recognized thru there unique disqus profiles and not der websites, liking (upvoting) a comment doesnt show which user upvoted a comment (unlike livefyre), and lot many other features.
Bob R
I think you’ve done the right thing. You are not the ones that decided the WP commenting system is the safest and the best option. I couldn’t comment on WP Beginner from work as we are behind some firewall that made Livefyre „dead” – I could put nothing in the comment box.
New design of wpbeginner looks great. Is this a Genesis child theme? eleven40 modified?
Editorial Staff
Yes we are glad to have you back commenting here. WPBeginner’s design is NOT a child theme of eleven40. It is a custom child theme of Genesis though
Administrator
Rev. Voodoo
I read your site all the time in my google reader. But I’d given up coming to the site. I couldn’t comment on Livefyre … I’m stuck using IE at work, and it just plain wouldn’t work! I’m glad you posted this article, or I never would have known I could come and leave comments again!
Editorial Staff
Thanks for dropping by. Yes, we did notice a drop in comments from a lot of regular users like yourself.
Administrator
Tony Greene
I found a plugin that merges with the Livefyre comments to keep lead generation going. However, the comment redirect plugin from Yoast failed to do this.
Shikeb Ali
It is funny that I received an email from Disqus that they are starting real-time comments and new voting features. I was really looking into it, almost about to implement it on my blog.
But now, I think will give it a second thought. 'Cause I hate spammers too and I don’t want to spend my half day deleting spam comments.
Gautam Doddamani
shikeb disqus hav really improved their overall spam system..you dont even need aksimet now..all the comments whether they are coming from a registered or an unregistered user shud go through your moderation before it becomes approved.
and further they have made smart improvements wherein if you put a link in your comment it automatically goes into the spam folder or becomes pending until you manually approve it.
Ankur
I personally like default wordpress comment system. its simple and straight forward.
Acc to my experience, newbie are more comfortable with simple commenting system whereas people who comment more like disqus etc. Moreover, default comment system improves site loading time.
Gautam Doddamani
i totally agree with you ankur…no external javascripts, no iframes, etc will definitely increase the site load and also if we get a lot of comments we can go one step further and cache all the gravatars which will make loading a page superfast
Zhen
Having the same problem about the syncing thing and even new comments would take hours before showing up in WP dashboard. Would really hope Livefyre to work those problems out in their upcoming version.
Paul H
I’ve played with different comment systems. I liked the Facebook comments until I remembered Facebook is blocked or difficult to access in a handful of countries. You wouldn’t notice comments from China or Vietnam dropping off – but going to those countries and not being able to read parts of your own site is frustrating.
I now prefer commenting where everything works within WordPress. Nothing worse than part of a page not loading – unless it’s the whole page not loading.
Tony Greene
What kind of value would you see coming from the commentary of countries like China or Vietnam?
Editorial Staff
WOW. So are you suggesting that the voices and opinions of people living in China and Vietnam are not important?
Administrator
Ahmad Awais
Well, I was waiting for this post, buh I shifted myself and found the original commenting system way better to customize and get subscribers.
Working with the Twitter Connect and Fb Connect , are you going to write about it or not?
Editorial Staff
Yes there might be an article on that. The process is very simple. Its merely putting in the information in the two plugins that we mentioned. Then activating the specific feature.
Administrator
Shad
Should change this article to „6 Reasons Why We Switched Away from Livefyre” and fix the numbering.
Editorial Staff
Ah what a huge oversight. Fixed.
Administrator
Russ Henneberry
Hey guys,
I have found LiveFyre to be very frustrating when I leave a comment. I have thrown up my hands a number of times trying to leave comments on sites that use the plug-in.
I think you made the right choice.
Russ
Lee Schuenemeyer
Won’t forcing Facebook comments fix most of these errors?
Editorial Staff
Not exactly. We will be limited to a specific platform. We would require our users to once again signup with a third party. We won’t be able to do any of the lead generation. We won’t be able to customize the look.
Administrator